How can I tell if my Dane meets or exceeds the breed standard for a quality purebred Dane?
Why would I need to show my Dane? Should I show my Dane?
The good, the bad and the ugly about showing.
On the library page, there is a link to a document on the official standard of the breed. Here is that link again, posted at the end of this page; but first, let me explain a few issues, facts, factors and concerns, very straight forward:
Why would I need to show my Dane?
The only real reason is "breeding".
Getting the title CH is like getting a high school diploma. Now, are all high school graduates created equal? Some have passed with help, luck and after struggling and getting breaks they were finally pushed through the system. They even have had to take special and easy courses. Others, graduated with honor. Both can say we have a high school diploma! But, are thy really equal?
The same with the "Ch" title. If you don't have it, no matter how you have mastered the courses on your own, studied, can debate them and have a better knowledge, someone who may have failed each year twice before finally passing high school can claim to be smarter than you because he has the paper you don't! Hence, why not get it!
For the same logic, showing and getting the title is also sought by those whose Dane is just good, or might even be very good, but not really the exceptional great and they want to say we have a champion Dane. They can put extra effort and time to continue to show over and over until they get enough points to hav the Ch. title. Most people would take that Ch. title as an undisputable proof of excellence ... the uneducated common buyer.
What you need to do is to examine the Dane, he may be great without the Ch. title - perhaps, as in one case I know of, the owners are older couple in a small village and can't afford the time and expense of the travel to show. Or, perhaps he has the title because he is just good enough to finally just collect enough points after extra showings and was pushed through the documentation system, But again, if he has the title, he should be at least reasonably good enough in most cases. I am not talking about exceptional excellence here.
There are so many Danes online with the Ch. title that are less than average, some are even closer to poor (or just passed) - I have the files. But as I said, they would be OK enough, for a reasonably good pet Dane.
Any reasonably good Dane in North America can get the Ch. title. The Ch. title is not a proof of excellence, it's a proof of good enough to meet conformation level and to ideally at least slightly exceed the standard. That standard is a minimum requirement, not the ultimate goal of excellence level. Yet, again, Showing and getting the title can help, won't hurt.
But, in reality, you need that Ch. title if you are going to breed, to prove that he/she is good enough and to shut up the competition - because if you don't have it - no matter how exceptional your Dane is, the competition will say your Dane is not good enough. It was said against "Plateau" by 3 loud jealous competitors and finally the couple showed him, he got the championship in no time, making best in breed every time and he was officially declared the #1 Dane in North America for 3 years!
The point is, there are Danes with the Ch. title who are just OK, others are very good and others are truly great or exceptional. And the same can be said for Danes that were not shown. I know of a lady in Ontario with an exceptional Dane who just refuses to play that game - as she put it, and is sick of the the "gang" attitude of a few women breeders controlling the show.
In fact, in the official document I attached here, which is the official AKC breed standard, the Dane they used as an illustration (shown again below), though is a good Dane, perhaps very good, yet it is not by any means an exceptional Dane.
So why did they use that Dane picture as a reference? It's the Dane owned by one of the active members in charge; and of course, as I said, it's a good Dane, it meets the specifications, and the owner probably sees him as a great Great Dane, but the fact is, there are several Danes throughout the globe, including the Danes presented by this site, who are much more regal, graceful and attractive Danes.
Having said that, if you are breeding commercially on a high production rate (some breeders in this area have 3, 4 or 5 females and each produces 2 litters annually. Puppy mills with profit in mind, which means no quality health care. I just heard of a nearby breeder who produces 3 or 4 litters a year, she did last year though she said, and says again that she may have a 2nd litter this year) ... well, if you are this kind of commercial breeder, then you are targeting a wide range of "customers" - and you need a lot of buyers - not just that special elite potential home - and as such, you are dealing with many uneducated buyers who will be impressed by the title Ch. and will assume that Ch. means a great dog. They don't know and they think that the dog won the championship over all other dogs (this is how they will see it. Not knowing that it's an accumulate point format that with any good enough dog, can be eventually achieved, and not knowing that your Dane may have been the only Dane in the show and was judged against a poodle!!).
Again, I am not saying it's wrong to show. I am not saying it's meaningless. In fact, I made reference to the fact that how our dogs have 4 consecutive generations of champions. But, you have to interpret that Ch. title correctly. You don't know whether that Dane is a champ because he was shown repeatedly for 2 years to get the points, or he is a true quality with proven Ch quality pedigree?
As I said, the puppy mill kind of commercial breeder doesn't want the competition to use it against them: "mine is a champ, yours isn't"! Many breeders have an ill-competitive spirit and they will put each other down because to them it's a business. So why not get the title anyway, it may help, and it won't hurt. As someone said a year ago in Dogs Canada, if your breeding dog is not shown and didn't get the Ch title, no matter how great he is, a sneaky and greedy breeder will say he doesn't meet the conformations and will get away with his claim as an opinion. Conformation has several areas where it's a matter of experienced opinion, interpretation, as to whether it's good or great - as opposed to a black & white clear cut application. Having the title will be a defense to say, yes he does meet the conformation and by getting the title you can argue that judges said he is good enough to breed.
As I indicated, this is not a true argument in the eyes of the educated person as it depends on how the Dane got the Ch. title, over how long, by how many judges and how well did he actually score in the over-all showing.
If you are not breeding, you know whether you have a great dog, a good dog, an OK dog or a poor dog. Just put his picture next to one of the known great dogs and compare.
Showing is the reason to obtain the CKC breeding registration number. You don't need the CKC number for any other reason if you'll not breed and as such you will need to register the pups that will be sold for breeding - only then you will need a CKC number for such breeding pups. Of Course as a buyer, whether you are purchasing a pup to breed or as a pet, the parents must have a registered and proven record of purebred breeding pedigree.
First, here is the AKC illustration; and our own illustration:
So back to our subject, to show or not to show ...
I explained the good side of showing.
Showing also has a negative side. Here are extracts from emails I received:
" .............. it will take the average dog many shows, specially if the owner is not one of the inter-breeding group of breeder friends who are the familiar faces in the showing program. Each show takes the whole day, a lot of hours and a lot of a**** kissing - which I am not good at lol. And if you have young kids or a job that can get in the way - or both ... it becomes a challenging task. .........."
Another breeder sent me this email 2 years ago and I had posted it for a while, addressing the politics, "bitchy" competition as she put it and the personal interest factors involved:
" ................. and I finally decided to shut her up by showing my sire. I knew I had to travel out of province using my sister's address for months to show him there. I knew he didn't have a fair chance here being judged by this b***** and her gang members of judges. I made sure judges knew I am moving back to Ontario (no threat to local breeders, them, and that I am showing for pride, no breeding plans). Well, the first time he was shown he made best in breed, second time best in show, 3rd time 2nd best in show - and in no time he had his Ch. title.
This is the same Dane that was no concern to any one here until they thought I was going to breed him. All of a sudden he wasn't good enough in the the eyes of the 4 women gang running the show business and who are all heavy duty breeders. Personally, I think it's a conflict of interest and those who breed should not be judging. But as I was told, who will judge then? The fact is, there are very few active breeders and those few deemed experienced individuals are the ones appointed by the local club to judge and to award points. It's a system far from perfect or professional but unless the kennel club is no longer a business-influenced operation and unless there is a recreational municipal or provincial funding for it to run it right like in Eastern Europe, it will remain an elite club for the semi-volunteer breeders and their friends ......
The best part of the story was a show the following year where a new judge relocating here was appointed and I knew about it from a friend. An elder man who used to breed. Well, guess what? my Dane won the top ticket, hers wasn't even selected to the finals..... "
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Finally, the preceding thought or experience gives you an idea of what you are going to be up against as a new competitor breeder if you decide to show your dog. Some will gang up on you. Most judges are local breeders and are very competitive, protective and greedy. Not all of them of course.
Here is another email, a more recent discussion with a Vancouver lady:
" ........... the same 2 women, breeders, real ******** ******* - excuse my French - and they have exhausted inbreeding among themselves using the same limited selection of produced pups year after year, their Danes have lost the intelligent eyes and the smarts of a good Dane. The pups look like they are drugged, by no means the sharp lively Danes produced by normal non-related breeding.
And funny, when I told them I decided to breed my Dane, a top line from a Russian sire and an African Dame, a Dane they had admired before, they suddenly said he wasn't good enough and argued conformation, a gray area where anyone can argue an opinion, and they led a vicious campaign against me ..."
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This is of course is the ugly side of the politics of showing. The good side I explained must also be considered. As I said, showing and getting the title can help, won't hurt. But, you need to show only if you are going to breed. You need AKC - CKC number only to show, not for a family pet.
Finally, here are the links again;
So let's look at what you are searching for in a Dane. Briefly; you are looking for:
height of minimum 28" F 30" M at the shoulders (again, this is the standard, but this would be too small for the graceful gentle GIANT to be GREAT)
The head: The link at the bottom gives you the full speech about it; but you can see on the left, the AKC chosen Dane, that the muzzle area from the nose to the stop is too short, too small and as such though it's a good head, it is not that regal and graceful. Now compare that head to our own Danes below:
Now ... can you see the difference? This is the number one feature in Danes.
And remember, this, above, is what breeders use as a reference. This is what AKC chose for a reference picture.
I know this will irritate local commercial breeders and puppy mills... ask me if I care!
I got into breeding in the first place out of frustration with their arrogant and bitchy attitude and with a strong desire to make good Dane pups available to me, my family and friends and to good average homes affordably (and sometimes for free).
No, no BS here and those who know how I raise my Danes, the expensive pre-pregnancy, pregnancy and pups diet - and how many I give away or sell on installments will know this is no commercial operation, it's a hobby and a pleasure - and take my word, I know Danes, 25 years - so please listen!
Our Danes
In judging the conformation, you also need to look at the back, the legs, the chest ... etc. Just see the detailed link below. And, here is our own illustration with our own Danes:
Size is a major factor in qualifying a Dane as Great.
A Dane as short as 28 inches at the shoulder meets the conformation standard and can be shown and has the right to win the Ch. title, but he won't be - in my opinion - a GREAT Dane. Yes, size isn't every thing, but it's still a must.
In these pictures our Danes illustrate the size issue in these areas:
The height
The total size
features such the size of the rib cage - chest circumference
length of the neck
and size of the head
The blue diameter on Anubis above indicates the circumference of the chest, taking a sewing tape and measuring around the chest from one point all the way around to the same point. Our Male measures 50 inches chest size and our female 45 inches.
Note the shape of the chest defined above by the red line.
Now the general body structure.
A picture says a thousand words. That's why I said you can compare your Dane against others and judge for yourself.
Note the two straight parallel lines (green lines separated by the eyes area "stop") of the head, the head size and shape, the flow of the body shape, the legs. Again, for a full writeup, see the AKC link below.
Now, we talked about size and measurements:
I came up with this system to measure Danes. It was quoted by Apollo" magazine and named after me, the "Gouda" measurement:
It provides 3 measurements.
The traditional height to the shoulder.
The chest area measurement.
The neck and head measurement.
In the picture to the right:
Line green is the traditional height .. in this case it's 36 inches
Line red is circumference of the rib cage: 50 inches chest size
Line yellow is the combined length of the neck + the two measurements of the head: total 33 inches.
As such, this Dane measures: 36 - 50 - 33
This would give you an over-all picture of the physical structure of the Dane.
Remember that the height (green line) is very close in length to the length of the back. In a male, as shown below to the right, the body forms a square (females have a slightly longer body) and the head in both male and female is rectangular. see the picture below to the right.
Most important, the Dane's nature, his personality.
He must be an affectionate, friendly well spirited dog.
And finally, my advice is, stay away from puppy mills. If you read the page I produced here on the difference between puppy mills and a breeder who produces pups when he has good families, and - he invests in the time and expense during the pre-pregnancy, pregnancy and post pregnancy stages including the expensive special diets, a breeder who does it with pride and love for Danes, as a hobby and a pleasure, not a business and no ill-spirited commercial attitude ... you will see that there is a big difference in what you will get and how healthy your Dane will be.
I am sick and tired of seeing bitter, competitive "bitchy" breeders who don't care except for selling their pups; pups doomed with their lack of pre-pregnancy and pregnancy supplements and the care pups need in their first 8 weeks. All they care about is selling pups, and they will do any thing to do it. In some areas, the people controlling the kennel club activities are a gang of breeders who want no one else to breed, and especially if that someone not has good Danes and clearly cares more for them and is not after the profit. They will put his Danes down, will try to isolate him at shows and will be bitter. It's beyond my understanding specially knowing that even with poor and low cost breeding, still, one couldn't possibly make that much money breeding!!!!
AKC
