Our average breeding costs has been around $600 to $1100 per pup, and sometimes higher. But, before I present my average break-down on breeding cost - let me tell you about a rich couple who also have good Danes and they breed them for fun & love of the breed. They sell the pup at their raising / breeding cost for well over $5000 even up to $7000 a pup. Hard to believe? Actually it costs them that much and they submitted a detailed breakdown report on how and why. You can read that report via the link below. Yes, I'll agree that some of their expenses are unnecessary and the cost per pup can be reduced; but, I'll not go to the other extreme of the puppy mills in USA and the dozens of backyard breeders on the increase daily.
And, I was advised to delete the cost explanations as my Danes need no explanation and someone may see it as justification. I decided against the advice. Sure someone may not see it, appreciate it or understand it; but that would be his problem! I think with the questions I get, they make interesting library material. So let's chat. Let me give you a brief report on the reasonable cost per pup to the breeder.
First, keep in mind that in nature an average of only one or two pups will survive per litter or will have a healthy life. So, drop the argument to just leave it to nature or to forget about vet visits, special supplements and feeding. It won't work. As I said, it's just like saying to a pregnant woman never mind doctor visits, checkups, health supplements ... just leave it to nature. We see how in 3rd world countries with poor nutrition, children later develop problems and they even have a short life span. It's the same with Danes, puppy mills produce pups that are bound to develop health problems and experience shorter life span. It is not all just about genes ... it is both, genes and health care.
Second, the care, both pre-birth and post birth, makes a real difference on the pup's future health and development (as opposed to his characteristic features). And as such, a pup without a healthy pregnancy and special care during the early critical first 8 weeks of his life at the breeder's will not develop to its full genetic potential and will develop sooner or later many problems; just like we see, the children in under-developed countries suffer. As such, puppy mills will sell you a little cheaper mass production low care and low cost pups that will most certainly have problems and will not develop to their potential.
Now ... here is a brief, very brief scan of the main costs with actual figures from our own last litter. Another breeding may cost a little less or a lot more:
- The cost per pregnancy: 3 vet exam visits, ultra sound and or x-ray, 2 blood tests, deworming, anti biotics and
culture sample twice = average $850 and based on average 5 pups litter which what we had with Cleo
= $170 pre-birth cost per pup: pre-birth-1.
- The mother's special diet during the 63 days pregnancy which includes daily multi minerals & vitamins
supplements in adition to raw ground beef, yogurt, goat milk, special dog food both dry + in gravy.
Average daily of $7-$12 = about $700 which is an average of additional $120 to $150 per pup pre-birth expense-2
... and yes, in nature they don't get that. As I said, in nature, large breeds have an average life span of 4 years
A friend of mine who lives on a farm was telling me about his dog who gets pregnant and sometimes no pups would
appear with her in a few weeks from wherever she chooses for a den, sometimes one pup - and this time she had
a large litter ... 2 pups! He doesn't know that her litter may have been 8 or more pups.
In nature and puppy miles, some pups are born dead because of lack of certain elements in the mom's
diet, some are too weak and they die in a few months ... and the ones that survive are by no means of
great health or physical potential as many of them will l years - develop health problems.
The point is obvious, in nature it's not survival of the fit; it's survival of the fittest and with a lot of luck.
Good breeding will save the fit ones, not just the one or two who are the fittest. Good breeding will also raise the
health standard of the average "fit" pup way past nature's sandard of the "fittest".
Anyway ... to continue our chat:
Mother's special diets part-III: prior to and during pregnancy to eliminate certain potential health
problems in her pups later; specially the shoulders & hips problems that are common in puppy mills:
$6 daily X 90 days = $540 = approximately $90 per pup cost: pre-birth-3.
So far $410 per pup and he is not born yet (and that actually excludes many other essential and actual
pre-birth expenses such as the parents cost of purchase and, raising and maintenance.)
Now, the comment below is very important:
This is another example of the difference between puppy mills with low breeding cost and a proper breeding.
In nature, most large breeds develop shoulder and hips problems starting at age 18 months and up.
This is not the type of unavoidable problem caused by inherited genes; it's a developed problem due to
potential health conditions that appeared later.
In other words, it is not a genetic conformation that cannot be escaped, it's a genetic potential that can
be avoided.
With proper and specific diet prior to and during pregnancy, this potential is eliminated as the developed
fetus is given that extra special nutrients that are missing in nature. It's a fact and our breeding health
records proved it.
Again I emphasize the importance of ratio and the danger of over dose. For example calcium though essential, if not balanced with other specific elements can in excess cause joint problems in large breeds and often shoulder and hip problems as early as age 18 months - and some even vets may assume its genetic i.e. the line, while in fact it's a developed not an inherited problem.
Remember again the critical balance issue and remember that the writer is an experienced breeder and is a pharmaceutical research chemist and MD.
While - if you don't know what you're doing, a safer choice for you would be a good balanced dog food with no V/M supplements - because some elements are a must for another element to be absorbed or utilized as I indicated - however, this safe choice will not be good enough for the Dane's future health.
This care of the mother pre-pregnancy is essential to avoid problems later. But, this large pre-birth cost is not accommodated by the average puppy mills and that's why some Danes suffer the severe problems that happens in nature. These can be avoided. Obviously a cheap pup could not have had such costly preventative health care.
- The vet cost per pup: deworming twice, puppy formula, general exam, multi vaccination and complete health check and medication to age 10 weeks:
puppy supplementary formula $14 a can per litter daily per litter, goat milk $3.99 a liter X average 2L a day (up to 5L later) per litter,
ground beef, puppy (large breed special optimum start puppy formula) and can food, yogurt average cost per pup:
a total of $3 to $4 a day =$200+ per pup in 8 weeks
(last breeding was over $5 a day per pup) ... and believe me; if you don't do that, first you risk losing several pups, which is what happens in nature, second you risk
later physical negative development and health problems.
- Mother's special diet part-II after giving birth: extra milk, supplements during nursing is about $3 a day = $168 in 8 weeks = additional cost of $33 per pup
- Advertisement in newspapers and online: last breeding was: $80+$64+$31+$21+$21+$18+$105+$55 = $50 to 70 per pup (previous breeding was $45 only).
So far, and this is not a complete expense list, you have about $838 per pup ... and even if you compromise, you may bring it down to $700 ... but again, that doesn't include many other expenses such as:
- The cost of raising the breeding adult couple all year. Food, vet visits ... you could be looking at an additional large average cost per pup.
- The expensive stud & dam purchase - since you are looking at breeding as a business, well, his is an initial necessary investment of about $3000 to $4000 each
Dane-parent when purchased for breeding. They are bred between age 3 years old to age 5 or 6 years as average, meaning about 3 breedings if all
successful; divided by 3 litters, average 6-8 pups a litter = $250+ per pup in advance.
- The expense of puppy setting as you would need consistent supervision for a few weeks, without which you will loose several pups to accidents such as the mother
stepping or laying on one - which again happens in nature. In the last breeding, this area alone was an average of $60 cost per pup taking into account the free (non-
paid for) long hours I personally put into the supervision and constant cleaning and disinfection; a lot of poop cleaning 5 or 6 times a day.
- One other unpredicatable and potentially very high cost area, sometimes in thousands, is the mother's vet care in the last few days when there is delivery problem,
often after hours. But, we did not include this here. This one of the areas that end up making the cost of some litters considerably higher than the income achieved
from that sold. This area is one of factors that breeders often feel lucky when they break even; but having the pleasure of producing pups and making some families
happy after such trouble is rewarding.
As you see, with these basics, you are looking at at about $700 to $1200 breeder's cost per pup not taking into account months of daily long hours and dirty work by the breeder to have that healthy, prepared for development pup. Also not taking into account that there are at least 20 days of immediate pre-birth and post birth where there is literally 24 hours a day rotated supervision and often hired help is needed.
One last thought ..
Is the $5,000 pup better than $2000 or $1500 pup? Not if the price of the $1500 pup includes proper health care and the pup represents a good line and good care indicated above. If the preceding costs are part of the $1500 or $2000 pup then the answer is that pup is the best and a much more expensive pup can only be just as good.
In fact we know of several cases when the answer is definitely NO ... the $5000 is not as good as the $2000. Some are priced as such to deceive the buyer who will assume that it must be the best.
Now:
Is the $1500 or $2000 pup better than the $800 pup? Yes. Unless the $800 pup breeder has spent the necessary cost per healthy pup which would have to be at least $800 and wants to sell the pup below cost for some reason! At least you can be sure that the $800 pup cannot be better than the $1500 pup. The reason is the fact that a proper care of the pup pre and post birth would cost from $700 to $1200+
I said this before, a $700 pup from a puppy mill or a backyard housewife beeder without the proper supplements and vet costs, is like a child born in some African jungle village with no medical attention, supplements, prevention and mother care. Most likely that child will develop problems later and will not reach the potential or have the life span of a well cared for pregnancy and early stage in life.
On the same subject ... make sure that the $2000+ pup has actually included the cost of that care and that the pup is raised by a reputable breeder. Just because it is sold for $2000 or even the $4000+ price, it doesn't mean that the breeder spent money on the indicated proper care. Here is a first hand experience case:
A local couple ordered a Dane pup from Ontario three months ago via the guy's sister who lived all her life in Ontario. The couple apparently didn't know about us. The pup arrived and I got to see it because suddenly the guy has to move to Hawaii and the law overthere would require to quarantine the pup for 3 months before it is allowed into the state. As such, he had to sell the pup and someone told him about my site and he wondered whether it would be acceptable to me to use my site to advertize the pup for him, an Ontario pup, not mine. He paid $1500 for the pup and was willing to sell it for best offer.
The pup was 3 days older than a litter I had. The pup was born June18th and my litter was born on father's day Sunday June 21st. One look at the pup especially by comparison to mine ... wow ... what a difference. Much smaller, weak, skinny, small and pointed head without that graceful Dane head & lips ... and while my average pup weighs about 20 lb at age 6 weeks, this one was 8 lb only.
And ... by the way, I expected the pup to have health problems but I didn't expect this ... the pup died a month later at
its new home! Again, in a way I hated writing this as it may look like putting others down in what may appear like a
silly childish breeders self-promotion. No, please take it seriously as a warning advice.
We don't breed before we secure good homes first, and I explained repeatedly, it is not a business type operation, so
please do yourself a favour and be careful with commercial and backyard housewife breeders.
Maybe this email says it all:
Hi Mr. Gouda. I don't know if you remember me, I applied for a pup from your last year's litter and I changed my mind
and got a pup from a breeder here in our province. I now know what you mean by health care breeding. I dismissed it
at the time or ignored it and so far we spent well over $4000 on our dane who is not even a year and half yet and is
having so many problems and had two shoulder and hip surgeries already. Our neighbor had Danes all her life and
she too tells us, breeding care makes all the difference and she was blessed with well bred danes who lived and long
healthy lives. I am submitting an application again. We want a second dane and this time we will not compromise.
I hope you'll approve us and we'll be fortunate enough to get one of you wonderful danes.
All the best to you, your son and your danes.
Sarah Green
sarahgreen19780@gmail.com
I can also tell you many horror stories of emails | got from people who purchased $700 American pups from puppy mills in the States.
So ... be careful about the price ... the too cheap ones are surely without proper care expense and they should be a NO ... NO
the $1500 - $2000 should be and can be good based on the breeder ...
the $4000+ are over-priced unless you are purchasing breeding-showing rights. They should be good, but it is likely to be as good as another good and well cared for line priced only around the $2000 a pup range. Unless, as per the link below, the care of the pup is done beyond practical and needed costs that would make a difference; meaning unnecessary expenses.
Now, would you like to see how one breeder spends $5000+ cost per pup? Curious? Click on the full report below:
