cost-per-pup
How much a pup costs the breeder?
The actual breeder’s cost!

The following are 2 reports by 2 breeders. The main report is by a breeder who sells her pups for $7000 and she will explain how it actually costs her near that much. I have to comment though that many other breeders do not spend money on proper and responsible breeding yet they charge an arm and leg out of greed and business approach.

The second report is a brief submission by this site, Anubis Great Danes, to explain how we can reduce the costs and how an Anubis pup may only costs the breeder $1000 or less  (excluding show-breeding pup registration cost which includes a $1000 for a show-breeding pup contract fee to the stud co-owner). This report will explain (not justify) the breeder's costs. From the questions I get, it seems that many people just don't understand!
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The following first report was made by a wealthy breeder who breeds for friends and family and she claims a $5000 cost per pup!  

I’ll not mention the breeder’s name for a second reason other than the obvious reason.  That reason is that the breeder compared her pups to mine claiming that they both are of the same top quality.

While I am of course flattered that the $5000 - $7000 pup breeder used us as  a comparative reference (in fact she stated that when it comes to top quality Danes in the whole world, there are only 6 breeders world-wide, we, Anubis Great Danes of Nanaimo, BC Canada, are one of them).  However, yes, her dogs are more than good – but, I am sorry, I have to say, while perhaps are even very good, they are not the GREAT very elite top quality!  Not as good as our breeding dams, Nifi or Cleo.

I am sorry this is how I responded to someone who praised me as a reference. But again, yes she has very good Danes.   To whoever is interested, I’ll send you pictures of their Danes and you be the judge (if you’re familiar with Dane conformation).  

Second note: the writer (the $7000 pup breeder) is breeding for fun. They are a very rich family residing on a 45 acres waterfront and they have an additional house just for the Danes. So, you can be sure, the figures are real. She doesn't need phoney talk.

Having said that, expenses, no matter what you spend, will improve the pup condition and its chances of development but will not change its genetic characteristics or quality.   At the same time, expenses related to corrective and supplementary health approach will provide better health and long life but not better looking Danes.

Please be patient and finish her accounting report. You’ll see with real dollar numbers how can the breeder’s cost of a pup be well over $5000 (and that is even an average taken into account that the sire  & dam will breed successfully for years with one pre-breeding setup cost. If the number of breeding was fewer, the cost of each pup would have been even higher, much higher actually. Please examine her report.

Please note again what she said when she wanted to refer to top quality GREAT Great Danes. Clearly the reference to the Nanaimo Canada breeder is us since there are no other Great Dane breeders not only in Nanaimo, but in that entire area. Here is her report:

  "A woman emailed me asking if I could sell her a pup for $500 as this is all she can afford. Besides the fact that she can’t afford to raise a Dane and shouldn't’ have one, I was so frustrated with the lack of understanding by some people who think that you could just get a male and female, the mate and you get a litter to sell and make money. Little do they know .......... I couldn't’ resist grab a pen & paper and my Danes expense folder and calculate the breeding expenses.

Another email from guy who probably never had a Dane before - asked me, why do I charge $6000 for a pup when you can get a top quality pup for $2000.

Well, again, the expense sheet speaks for itself. Besides, what top quality Danes this guy is talking about and where did he see them?  Let me tell you that there are only 5 breeders who have the Dane quality we have!  Only five .. one in Stuttgart, Germany, one in Southern Hungary,  one in New York, one in Nanaimo, Canada and the last one is in the French capital. There are very few more breeders with good quality Danes, but when it comes to the difference between good and exceptional, I could only vote for those 5 breeders.

All the rest, and I have seen them all, vary from just good (very few) to terrible (many) ..

Well, my accounting background will come in handy now as I attempt to show why I charge $5000 to $7000+  for a pup:



A) Basic costs – purchasing and raising the 2 parents to age 2+ years (breeding age):

1- Sire:  $4,600 + $375 shipping + $380 ears cropping  (now it costs over $700 if you can find a vet that does it) + $178 customs  =$5533
2- Dam: $3,800 + $375 shipping + $380 ears cropping + $178 customs  =$4733
   We also signed to give the breeders a pup from each of the 3 breedings. 

3- Vaccinations “and associated automatic vet exams”: ($90+$65+$77+$40+$110) X 2  parents X 2 years.
    That’s $382 a year per Dane = $1528 for the 2 Danes in 2 years.

4- Medications during the first 2 years, such as de-worming, multi vitamins & minerals and other preventative items: $28 monthly X 24 X 2  = $336 a
   year per dog = $1344 for both dogs in 2 years. (one third of this cost is taken into account below to present an average per breeding).
5- National Kennel Club registration: $80 X2 (both parents) = $160
6- Pedigree certificates: $75 X2 = $150
7- Municipal registration: $40 X2 X2 = $160
8- Micro-Chip ID required for registration: $120 X2 = $240
9- Champion certification costs: ($120 X average 9 shows X 2 parents) + ($110 X9 handling X2) + (average $180 travel X9) + average $90 associated costs
   X9. If you did the math here, you’re probably now surprised to see that getting the 2 championship titles costs $3285 per each parent dog, yes, $6570
   for both dogs over the 19 months it took.

10- Food during the first 2 years, per dog:  daily average: $2 goat milk, $3 raw meat, $4 quality dog food = $280 monthly per dog X 2 parents X 24 months,
    that’s $3860 a year per each parent dog or $7440 each dog in 2 years. I am sure not in her wildest dreams she thought we would be spending $13,400 on both dogs in 2 years. And that doesn't’ even include the dogs' recreational costs such as chewing toys and stuffed toys .. etc. 

Surely we’re blessed financially, but even if you were not rich, you would have to be prepared for - I would say - a low average of $4 a day feeding cost, $120 a month, $1440 a year. Even if  you get the bargains here and there, get free or cheap raw meat scarps (careful with fat content) and even keep it to $2 a dog daily, $60 a month (I don’t know how, but was told is done), still, $720 a year just basic food. Surely a Dane is not for a struggling person on assistance.

11- Average vet – maintenance & checkup: 3 visits annually X $180 X 2 parents X 2 years = $540 a year per dog = $2160 for both dogs in 2 years.
12- cost of occasional hired help & dog sitting & boarding: $210 X 4 X 2 parents X 2 years; $840 a year per dog, it isn’t cheap! $4460 in 2 years for both dogs.

Ideally, if we were to talk strictly business, one should include the breeder’s time every time he or she has to take the dog to the vet and the incredible amount of time and business time lost taken away by the dogs & pups needs. We did not take that into account because even at minimum wage rate it would add up to thousands of dollars.  I also did NOT include considerable setup costs such as a Danes roon, an outdoor play room, heating costs in winter and many more accommodation costs.

And, truly this is not an inflated or exaggerated list at all. Are you ready?! well, the total cost of raising the sire & dam to age 2 when they can be bred for the first time is well over $3000  per Dane annually. And considering the breeding Dane's purchase expenses, it's $ 8619  per each breeding dog annually X 2 dogs X 2 years for both the sire & dam in the first  2 years when they are ready for 1st breeding, and that doesn't’ include the cost of each of the actual breeding. Read on please!

Now keep in mind that the dam is bred from age 2 to age 5 or 6 years old. With average cycle every 8 months and taking into account 2 months pregnancy and 2 months nursing, plus the fact that you cannot breed the female every time (every year)  = actual number of  total breeding =  3 or maximum 4 times and yes that's maximum if everything works perfect.

Taking the total cost of purchasing & raising the 2 parents to age 2 as explained above, dividing it over 4 breedings = $8619 cost per each breeding (per litter) to this point. If we say that the average (blessed or lucky) breeding brings 7 healthy pups, the cost of each pup so far before taking into account the breeding itself (and more as explained below) to $1,231 cost per pup just up to this point. Now you go over the expenses above, reduce and cut as you think it can be done, then show me how you can bring it under $700 cost per pup (again, only to this point of expenses - before even breeding).

B)  Now the cost of pre-breeding check up and setup (once, not annual):

13- whelping room can cost anywhere from a few hundreds to a few thousands. The cheapest setup is in the $800 average if you have an area in a basement of
     an extra room to dedicate it to that purpose. You’ll need special floor setup area with drainage, special heat lams setup, insulation, security, temperature
     control and monitoring system and fencing.

14-  gram-accurate scale: $125
15-  lb accurate scale: $90
16- equipment-general (scissors, pup feeding tubes, bottles, whelping box, anal thermometer and several other items: $120
17- at age 2 years:  each dog:  hips x-ray:$ 575  heart ultra-sound cardiac test: $620 thyroid tests, gastric torsion, dilated cardiomyopathy DCM, tricuspid
     valve dysplasia TVF, CERF eye clearance, osteochondrosis dessicans (elbow), patellar luxation (knees), hypothyroidism and hip dysplasia certification =
     over $1850 per dog (required once prior to breeding).                 Total “B” = $2985


C)  Costs repeated annually: # 7, 10, 11,12 and 1/4th of #3   under “A” ($40 local regist. + $3960 food + 840 general/help + $590 vacc & vet general= total
    annual per dog: $5430 X 2 parents X 5 years of breeding gap = average breeding cost per pup (based on 4 breeding X 7 pups each) = $1939 per
    pup under this category only.


D)  Now the cost of each breeding (repeated every breeding):

18-medication purchased prior to whelping and for pups treatments at birth: $310
19-blood analysis female pregnancy exam: $320
20-ultra sound, female pregnancy exam: $460
21-X-ray female pregnancy exam: $280
22-whelping disposable equipment:  $110
23-6 weeks sanitary supplies: $24 per week X 6 = $144
24-advertisements:  web site: $170 annual hosting + building & maintenance; $180 district newspapers, $230 national papers,  $105 kennel club,  $140
           puppies sales sites = $825 per breeding (and still, I know someone who sells cheap pups and still ended up stuck with 5 pups he couldn't’ sell).
25-Puppies diet during the first 8 weeks: daily, $3 goat milk, $2 ground beef,  $1cheese & $1 yogurt, special puppy dog formula & food $2 = $9 a pup
           daily = $504 per pup in 8 weeks  X average 7 pups. 
26-De-worming twice, and one vet exam:    $65+$18 per pup = $83 per pup X 7
27-Vaccination (and vet exam charges): $75 + 90 + $45  = $169 per pup
28-4 days of 24 hours supervision and assistance (in nature, without it, the average survival is 2 pups per litter): 24 X 4 X $7 = $672 help per litter = $96
           cost per pup
29-part-time help for 3 weeks after: 3 wks X 7 days X 10 hrs X $7 = additional $210 cost per pup.
30-additional puppy-needed power/energy cost for 8 weeks 24 hrs/day: $4 X 8 wks X 7 dys = $224 = $32 cost per pup
                                          
             Total “D” per breeding (litter): $9917 = $1416  per pup


E) Other / Additional costs:

31-shipping crate: $145
32-shipping cost average $280 inter-district
33-pup registrations: $80 + $45 + $28
34-pup micro chip ID or tattoo: $90
35-pup ears cropping: $480 + $120 associated  treatments & exams.

             Total “E” = $1268  per pup

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Now, the total “final total” cost per pup (average throughout the parents’ active life):

“A”: the cost of the 2 parents raised to age 2 years, divided by average 4 breedings, with the hope that each breeding will be successful and will
       bring us 7 healthy pups = $1231

“B”: breeding set-up; one time cost divided by 4 breedings divided by 7 pups each breeding = $106 per pup

“C”:  annual – continuous life time costs: $1939 per pup

“D”: each breeding: $1416 per pup

“E”: additional costs:  $1168 per pup


total cost per pup (A+B+C+D+E): $5860  per pup

"F"   To this point, we didn't’ treat it as a typical business by not taking into account:
     -     the cost of personal time put into it.
     -     the possible - often trouble during pregnancy which is very costly. One pregnancy, in its last 2 weeks involved a total of $4600 vet bills.
     -     the cost of the dam special diet for 5 months: a month prior to, two months of pregnancy and two months post pregnancy.
     -     the fact that 7 healthy pups every breeding can be on the optimistic side.
     -     the cost of care (not just additional 24/7 electric heating) but total care which icluded cleaning poop 5 times a day for 8 weeks.

Including the "F" category, the $5860 breeding cost per pup becomes well over $6500 a pup.


Now you tell me, without compromising the quality pup care, what would you do differently to reduce the cost per pup?                                                

End of her report.           


Now, our own note. Our reduced costs:

Very briefly, how we can sell our quality pups for much less than hers?
Here are key cost areas by comparison:

1-the costs of the sire & dame, purchase, care and feeding is not included in our calculation. It is considered our pleasure, they are our
         pets anyway, and the pups are a bonus.
2-The cost of kennel club registration for pup is not included and is to be done by the new owner if he/she will be showing or breeding
         the pup.
3-Pedigree certificate, no costs. Photocopies of both parents’ are given.
4-Micro-chip ID cost not included. Needed only if the pup will be shown/bred (for CKC papers).
5-The cost of breeding that she classified it under section “D” to be $1400 a pup, is in our case $375. We did not claim or include
         expenses that could be included if we were to look at breeding as a mere business project. It isn't’, not for us.
6-Advertisement costs: $50 only - per pup (last breeding average).
7-Pup food for 10 weeks: daily: $1.5 goat milk, $1 yogurt, $1.50 dog food, $1 raw ground beef= $5 daily X 7 X 10 = $350 per pup
8-Vaccinations, supplements, de-worming and vet exams:  $185
9-Shipping and ears cropping are not included in our price.
10-      The cost of hired help is not included. It takes sleepless nights for 5 or 8 weeks by my son and I, and daily hours of poop cleaning.

As a result, a quick scan would show a cost of  only $960 or less per pup. In reality, it can be between $800 to $1800 taking into account a few other expenses that adds up. As indicated, that’s not taking into account the purchase price of the sire and dam and the on-going costs of raising and caring for the parents (which should be included, and which would raise the actual cost per pup considerably).

Perhaps now you can understand why it cannot be done for less unless it's an irresponsible puppy mills - and you most likely can expect the health problems you often hear about.  These problems cannot be eliminated without the extra nutrition care of the dame prior to and during pregnancy and the pups fro 8 weeks.  

We sell the average pup for $1500 as pet, often $1000 if the good home is not a rich home.  No showing or breeding CKC breeding number.  

You can go to the puppies page and click on the “puppy sales contract” link on the left and read clause 5 (5-e is likely what you need).

This was the first page posted as analyses of the Dane pup's special needs and costs. It was written as a reply, a midnight chat over a glass of wine, then I deleted it and replaced this page.  I re-posted it as it includes illustrative photos of Danes, the good and the bad, and it explains an additional health and cost related factor.
Written Sept. 2010